Posts by Giles Gray

83

Seeking support ... Where can a Christian go

by Sevan in

jw
friends

hey all, .

so i recently posted for the first time and introduced myself.. i have been spending time reading various posts.

some informative, some not so much.. since i've been reading on here, i've read a lot from atheists.

Giles Gray

Sevan-"Giles Gray, the concept that everything, in all its wonder and complexity, just got here by chance, does not and cannot make rational sense to me. That scripture about every house having a builder really hits home for me, especially when you consider that the natural world and universe is far more complex and awe-inspiring than any house."

Just because an alternative concept doesn't seem to be rational doesn't automatically prove the one you hold dear is anymore rational either. Both could be wrong.

If both concepts have inconsistencies then it would be irrational and illogical to claim you could never be shaken from the one you are most familiar with, just because you've believed it longer.

The only rational approach would be to consider both concepts objectivly. You can't achieve that by holding a bias towards a cherished concept. If that concept proves incorrect then so will be your conclusions. It would also demonstrate a lack of open mindedness.

83

Seeking support ... Where can a Christian go

by Sevan in

jw
friends

hey all, .

so i recently posted for the first time and introduced myself.. i have been spending time reading various posts.

some informative, some not so much.. since i've been reading on here, i've read a lot from atheists.

Giles Gray

Sevan-"There are posts that imply and others that directly state that believers are delusional, illogical, irrational and lacking intelligence."

Sevan-"Frankly, there is nothing that could convert me to Atheism, so it is honestly a waste of time. I was a believer long before encountering the Jehovah's Witnesses and I will be a believer for the rest of my life."

It's these kind of statments that athiests draw their conclusions from.

To claim there is 'nothing' that could challenge your belief is illogical, irrational and indicates the need to believe at all costs which is delusional.

25

Observations: If man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism .

by Believer in

observations: if man is merely a machine and the universe is merely a mechanism .... if men were only machines, they would react more or less uniformly to a material universe.

individuality, much less personality, would be nonexistent.. materialism reduces man to a soulless automaton and constitutes him merely an arithmetical symbol finding a helpless place in the mathematical formula of an unromantic and mechanistic universe.

but whence comes all this vast universe of mathematics without a master mathematician?

Giles Gray

The partially evolved mental mechanism of mortal man is not overendowed with consistency and wisdom. Man’s conceit often outruns his reason and eludes his logic

Hence religion.

Oh the irony...

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Giles Gray

OLI-Giles Gray, why is "I don't understand everything" the mark of enlightenment for exJWs and non-believers but irrefutable evidence that believers are irrational?

Because believers only resort to 'not understand things' when they are stuck to explaining away the less edifying parts of the bible.

Believers never call into question the parts of the bible that lend favour to their god's reputation.

It's not so much a case of irrationality but more of bias and hypocrisy.

30

This is Why I Will Keep Explaining Evolution to ex-JWs

by cofty in

.

Giles Gray

Well then, I suppose that settles it. Evolutionists would never falsify their works.

Not without being found out the same no...

30

This is Why I Will Keep Explaining Evolution to ex-JWs

by cofty in

.

Giles Gray

A famous Historian, Flavius Josephus, had written about the existence of Jesus, Jesus stated that man and women were created. That's good enough for me to still believe in Creation

A while ago, a famous film reviewer wrote that Darth Vader was the actual father of Luke Skywalker, and that Darth Vader believed in the dark side of the force. That's good enough for me to believe in the Empire.

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Giles Gray

OLI-In any case, I'm not God, nor do I claim to understand everything completely.

How is it that when there is something negative about god in the bible, believers don't claim to understand everything...

But they never question the positive portions about god but take them at face value?

Only slightly one sided...?

133

Why Are You Here?

by Believer in

i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.

as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.

as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.

Giles Gray

2+2=5
Could you imagine my thoughts? You would be shocked and traumatised if you could read my wicked atheist mind and get just a glimpse of my mentality. You may also become sexually aroused.

Oh behave!

133

Why Are You Here?

by Believer in

i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.

as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.

as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.

Giles Gray

Simon
It's funny how the righteous are now so worried about their right to free-speech ... after hundreds of years of butchering anyone who dared question the existence of their god.

I know. My favourite is when you point out their intolerance towards homosexuals and their response is that by doing so, you are inhibiting their religious freedom and right to believe.

133

Why Are You Here?

by Believer in

i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.

as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.

as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.

Giles Gray

Believer-"Yes, I understand that. But remember, believers were also muted by the same dogmatic believers. So a forum such as this is also the believer’s opportunity to regain their freedom of speech.They don’t want to lose it again either."

I agree fully. But just to point out that some, and I would guess most unbelievers, want to hear your points of view and have no desire to inhibit any freedom of speech.

Believer-"Surely there can be some respect for that so that every time the words “faith” or “spiritual” or “God” are brought up, the believer is not chastised or ridiculed for it."

I appreciate your wishes but it's just never going to happen in reality when you have a clash of such opposing perspectives. Maybe this is the price of freedom of speech?

People's frustrations will almost inevitably result in ridicule. Both sides are guilty, as were you yourself with one of your posts to me. But just to say that not all challenging questions are meant to be hostile.

If you take a look at Cofty's series of threads about evolution, there are a lot of spiteful and ridiculing comments that come from believers. He just gets on with it. It's going to happen.

Believer-"They should be just a free to say ‘I believe in God’ without have to prove why to those who really don’t care why."

But if we apply that as a rule, doesn't that inhibit unbelievers right to free speech? Isn't that what the JWs promote?

No one is forcing you to reply to their posts. You don't have to engage unbelievers. So you are free to say what you believe in and you don't have to prove nothing to anyone.

If you don't wish for your beliefs to be challenged then there are other sites that only let Christians post on them. But as far as I am aware, this is an open discussion forum, so it's going to happen.